Strategy& Insider Podcast | Episode 42 with Prof. Masayuki Hirata - Transcript

Thomas Solbach: Konnichiwa, and welcome to a new episode of the Strategy& Insider podcast. I am Thomas, a partner at Strategy&, and the host of this podcast. As you might have guessed from my greeting, we are recording in Tokyo today, which is obviously Japan's bustling capital. A series of workshops and an international conference have brought me to this vibrant city, and I am thrilled that I can leverage this opportunity to discuss a truly visionary and thought-provoking topic while I am here. I am talking about brain-computer interfaces, commonly known as BCI, which is a field dedicated to translating thoughts into actions. It is an absolute privilege and honor to be joined by Professor Masayuki Hirata, who is a distinguished and renowned expert in neuroscience and neurotechnology. So, thank you very much for taking the time with me today, Professor Hirata.

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: Thank you very much for your kind introduction. I am very pleased to be here today.

Thomas Solbach: Excellent. First of all, let us get to know you a bit. Professor Hirata is a specially appointed professor at Osaka University, where he leads the Department of Neurological Diagnosis and Restoration at the Graduate School of Medicine. He is also the founder of JiMED, an innovative company focused on wireless implantable brain-computer interface technologies that has been operating since 2020. His academic background comprises both the technical as well as the medical skills needed, having studied engineering at the University of Tokyo as well as neurosurgery at the University of Osaka. Since 2000, he has been a board-certified neurosurgeon as well as a specialist and instructor in epilepsy and clinical neurophysiology. In 2016, he was named Professor at Osaka University's Department of Neurosurgery. Additionally, Professor Hirata is an active member of various scientific committees, for example, serving as president of the International Society for the Advancement of Clinical Magnetoencephalography. He was honored with several awards, such as the International Catalyst Award from the US National Academy of Medicine in 2020. While I could obviously continue to detail his impressive credentials, this brief introduction highlights the wealth of expertise and experience Professor Hirata brings to our conversation. This is why I am truly honored to have you with me today, and many thanks for being my guest on this podcast.

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: Thank you very much for your kind introduction.

Thomas Solbach: So, Professor Hirata, we are meeting in the city center of Tokyo, which is renowned as one of the most populated urban centers in the world, with the Greater Tokyo area boasting over 41 million residents. When I landed here last night, the sheer scale of this city was quite overwhelming to see from the plane. You traveled here today from Osaka, which is about half the size of Tokyo and has 2.7 million residents. How do you feel when you arrive here in Tokyo, and what do you prefer - the capital or Osaka?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: Yeah, the size difference is not that significant - Osaka is about half the size of Tokyo. But the biggest difference is in business: Tokyo is the business hub, and many talented young people want to move to Tokyo. As a result, startups - especially the most innovative ones - can easily attract this young talent. That is the main difference.

Thomas Solbach: And a megacity like Tokyo obviously has a wide array of challenges regarding infrastructure, including the healthcare system, with hospitals and clinics, doctors' offices, and ambulance routes. Yet, Japan is remarkably efficient in providing reliable and functional health services. From your perspective, what is the secret to making it work?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: Actually, that largely depends on the dedication of physicians and medical staff. However, this comes at the cost of excessively long working hours, so labor reforms were introduced last year. As a result, manpower shortages have become more visible, making it difficult to maintain this high-quality service in some areas, especially in the countryside. Tokyo, like other urban areas, has a higher concentration of doctors. As I mentioned, the impact is limited. But the doctor shortage in rural areas is very severe. At the same time, simply increasing the workforce would expand the medical budget deficit. So, it is difficult to strike a balance at this point.

Thomas Solbach: Professor Hirata, you are a board-certified neurosurgeon, and you have an academic background in both engineering and medicine. So, to me, this sounds like a perfect combination of skills for your work in developing brain-computer interface technologies and for founding your company JiMED. However, it surely is no easy task to translate the thoughts in a human brain into physical action. Could you give our listeners and me an overview of how BCI technology operates and what JiMED specifically focuses on?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: Brain-computer interface technology consists mainly of three core technologies: One is brain signal measurement and recording, the other is brain signal decoding, and lastly, device control based on the decoded results. First, to translate human thought into physical action - controlling a device just by thinking - we must measure brain activity related to movement precisely and instantly. Next, we need to accurately interpret what those brain signals represent. This is the decoding process, the second step. And finally, we use those decoded signals to control devices. Among these three, the most technical challenge is precise brain signal measurement. For implantable systems, extremely high reliability and safety are required, making it one of the most demanding types of medical devices. But once realized, it is difficult to replicate, giving us a competitive advantage. So JiMED has focused on developing brain signal recording devices for accurate brain signal measurement.

Thomas Solbach: And basically, JiMED was established in March 2020 as a spin-off from Osaka University. What led to your decision to start the company, and what have been some of the greatest challenges, but also milestones along the way until today?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: I initially had no intention of starting a company myself. I hoped existing medical device companies would commercialize this technology. But because the technology was so advanced and the business model was unclear, no company wanted to take it on. So, I decided to do it myself. Our biggest challenge was the casing of the implanted device. While the internal electrical circuit could be solved domestically in Japan, Japan had no manufacturing company producing implantable medical device casings. This includes various know-how, so it is not easy. We did animal testing with some capable domestic companies, but when it came to human clinical models, they declined, saying that they could not handle human implants.

Thomas Solbach: So, the Japanese-based firms could not handle it. Okay, interesting.

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: Yeah, for human applications. Just animal applications were okay, but not human applications. Because Japanese companies are extremely risk-averse, which makes high-risk medical device production difficult. So, we then approached several overseas companies, including Germany. But they were very slow to act. Finally, we turned to a US assembly company. They were amazed by our device and offered to do it for a very reasonable cost.

Thomas Solbach: So, the US actually picked it up and produced it in a collaboration model with you. The primary target of JiMED’s technology is to enable communication for individuals who are unable to speak, move, or use other forms of physical expression due to impairments. What is the main use case of your technology, and how close are you to developing something market-ready?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: As you noted, our first goal is helping patients with locked-in syndrome. They cannot do anything; they cannot move at all. Such people include those with ALS - amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. Our goal is to help such patients communicate. By enabling patients to operate communication devices using BCI technology, we can solve problems faced by those who have lost the ability to use them. So, we plan to expand step by step, allowing users to control a variety of devices, such as not only their communication devices, but also avatars and humanoid robots. And the final goal is to enable disabled people to move on their own.

Thomas Solbach: So basically, the technology is for supporting patients with, for instance, ALS to speak again, but also at some point to move again as part of an avatar setup. Did I get that right?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: Yes. The biggest issue that such patients face is difficulty in communication. So, the first issue to solve is the communication problem.

Thomas Solbach: And how many patients have you treated already with this, and how many have you implanted such a device in?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: We are now in the final steps of preparing for the upcoming clinical trial of the implant of this BCI device. So, we are planning to start the clinical trial next year.

Thomas Solbach: So, you are preparing phase one of clinical trial, right? How many patients do you plan to include? Is this known already?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: We cannot say the accurate number of patients, but about ten or so.

Thomas Solbach: Okay, ten. That gives us an order of magnitude. Beyond your main goal of enabling communication, what other potential applications do you foresee for BCI technologies as a whole? Not only from JiMED, but what else could BCIs do?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: Our strategy is step by step. The ultimate goal is to enable people with disabilities to regain control of their own bodies, and eventually to extend use to elderly or able-bodied people as their abilities decline. Controlling a humanoid robot or an avatar is already possible at the research level. As we scale up, the most important thing is to ensure safety, and both moral and ethical integrity. Ultimately, systems should prevent harmful or malicious actions, even if the user intends them. In communication as well, it is crucial to protect private thoughts - things we think but do not wish to say - from being exposed. That is another important point.

Thomas Solbach: And how does the Japanese population think about the ethical boundaries that you mentioned? You are implanting a brain chip into the human body. Obviously, data is flowing to the chip. You decode the signals and put that into action in the end. So, a lot of data is involved. How open or not open is the Japanese population toward the usage of this?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: Are you asking whether people would want to use it or not? In short, our device requires surgery. Most people do not want to undergo surgery. The decision depends on weighing the benefits against the drawbacks. If people understand that they can use it safely and they understand that it is a very good tool to utilize, many people would probably choose to use it. But at present, this is unclear. While many people may decide not to use it, patients differ - for example, individuals with locked-in syndrome may be more inclined. If such individuals are informed about both the benefits and the drawbacks, the benefits may far outweigh the drawbacks, and many would decide to use them.

Thomas Solbach: So basically, as long as it is safe and benefits are clear, people who are disabled are probably more open to using it, while the general public is more inclined to say, "I do not want to have surgery, I do not want to have a brain chip in my head."

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: Yes, and as performance increases as technology develops, more people will want to use it. People’s minds will gradually change.

Thomas Solbach: Healthy aging is a rising topic in the developed world, especially in Japan. The country has the world's most rapidly aging society with nearly 30% of its population over 65 and more than 10% being over 80 years old. Recently, JiMED 's CEO, Jin Nakamura, shared insights on healthy aging through enhancing motor and communication capabilities for aging individuals at a conference here in Tokyo, actually. In what ways could BCI technologies be integrated into existing healthcare systems to support such an aging population? And how could this influence the longevity trend we currently witness in many Western societies?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: In the future, elderly individuals with reduced physical ability could also benefit from BCI technology. Today's medicine already helps restore the function of other organs, for example, intraocular lenses for cataracts or artificial joints for arthritis. Likewise, BCI technology could restore lost neural function in the elderly. Rather than simply accepting aging, we need to see continued progress towards healthy longevity. Beyond medicine, residential living spaces and urban environments should also evolve to be more age-friendly, integrating this technology into creating ideal, inclusive societies.

Thomas Solbach: Speaking of recent developments, in March 2025, JiMED actually received an early EDGE award from Japan's Electronics and Information Technology Industry Association, which is the country's biggest industrial association. The prize is awarded to companies with emerging technology expected to have substantial future impact, despite currently having limited market visibility. In this regard, JiMED is somewhat of an underdog, competing against much bigger and more established brands in the field, such as Neuralink from the US. How do you view the BCI ecosystem evolving, and do you plan to collaborate with other stakeholders?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: The ecosystem will likely evolve from simple electroencephalogram (EEG) switches and keyboard operation to natural speech decoding, avatar control, and humanoid operation. In parallel, living spaces and urban environments will adapt their design accordingly. Our goal is to co-create an inclusive ecosystem with smart homes and smart cities. Since this involves surgery, it will not progress as rapidly as some expect. But based on my 30 years as a neurosurgeon, I am confident it will steadily expand and establish itself as sustainable, groundbreaking medical technology. In 10 years or so, I expect JiMED to be widely recognized as a promising medical device company offering revolutionary care. Our strength lies in our advanced brainwave measuring technology - precise signal acquisition without noise interference. Unlike Neuralink's robot-inserted electrodes, our approach simply places electrodes on the brain's surface. This avoids brain injury, allows long-term stable performance, and requires shorter, simpler, and less costly surgery. Reducing electrode spacing can even increase resolution to the smallest functional units of the brain. I am very confident we have merit compared even to Neuralink's technology.

Thomas Solbach: The research you have conducted at the university and at JiMED has largely involved animals so far. Can you explain what type of experiments you have been conducting over recent years?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: We cannot implant devices in humans yet, so we must first confirm the safety of implanted devices. We are conducting many animal experiments, implanting such medical devices into animals and confirming their safety as well as their basic performance. For the neural decoding technology performance, we have conducted extensive clinical research using patients with intractable epilepsy. To confirm the epileptic focus in such patients, we frequently place brain surface electrodes to identify epilepsy foci and brain functions. Using electrodes implanted in patients, we have performed extensive BCI clinical research, mainly regarding neural decoding. So, we have considerable experience with neural decoding technology, but for implanted device safety, we must use animals.

Thomas Solbach: As a neurosurgeon, you could, in principle, implant a brain chip device into a human brain. Can you share how this is done? How do you open up the brain and connect such a chip? How do you connect to neurons?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: We do not implant it into the brain - we just place electrodes on the brain's surface. The basic surgical procedure involves cutting the skin, opening the skull bone, and cutting the dural membrane surrounding the brain itself. After opening the dural membrane, we can see the brain surface. All we have to do is place the electrode on the brain surface and close.

Thomas Solbach: So, you place it on top, and then how does the signal transmit? You detect the signal from the brain's outer surface because the electrodes are lying on the brain, and is that signal strong enough to measure and decode?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: Compared to wearable electrodes placed on the skin surface, when we place electrodes on the brain surface directly, the brainwave amplitude is much larger - about 10 times bigger than skin surface electrodes. When we place electrodes on the brain surface directly, external noise is blocked by the skull bone. With this double advantage, we can obtain very accurate brain signals without external noise. Compared to needle electrodes, our approach is far more robust against noise. The brain surface electrodes we use are very robust and accurate.

Thomas Solbach: One dream of humankind - perhaps not everyone's wish, but a dream nonetheless - is that after death, your brain could continue to live, that memories could continue to exist. Looking years into the future, do you see this ever being possible? What is your expert opinion?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: It is fascinating to consider. In computing, the idea is intriguing.

Thomas Solbach: Yes. What is your expert perspective on that?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: It is possible, but very difficult to realize. The brain's signals are so vast and complex that recording all of them is nearly impossible at this stage. So, technically it is possible, but for the present it is practically impossible.

Thomas Solbach: And if there were quantum computing - so way more powerful computing power realized in five to seven years from now - would this become more of a reality, or how do you judge this?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: Yes, such advanced technology makes it more and more possible to realize, but it remains challenging. Compared with the brain’s relatively low power consumption, PC computing requires a lot of power and electricity. It is not very cost-effective, I think. The human brain, and even animal brains, are incredibly sophisticated - the result of roughly 400 million years of evolution. It is a remarkable work of art.

Thomas Solbach: You are absolutely right. If we think of the human body, many organs are better understood nowadays through research, right? But I have the sense that the brain is not really 100% understood by any means. To what extent do you think we understand our brain yet, in percentage? Is it only 2%, 10%, or 80%? How much knowledge about our brain do we have?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: That is also a very difficult question. I think we know just a few percent.

Thomas Solbach: I would bet we understand around 10% probably. So, another use case we talked about earlier is for disabled people - regardless of the reason for their disability - people who cannot walk or cannot move their arms anymore. There is the use case of using an avatar or an exoskeleton around that disabled person to help them move again. To what extent is that possible in parts already today, and when do you think such an avatar or exoskeleton can really make people move in daily life again? Is that many years out, or is it coming sooner? What is your perspective?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: From a technological standpoint, it can be realized soon.

Thomas Solbach: Okay.

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: But medical applications require many issues to be overcome. There are regulatory issues and so many other issues to solve, so it takes time. But technologically, we can achieve it at present. Also, my ultimate goal is to help people move their own bodies using implantable functional electrical stimulation. For example, if we place electrodes on just five nerves under the armpit - the median nerve, radial nerve, ulnar nerve, musculocutaneous nerve, and axillary nerve - by placing just five electrodes on these five nerves, we can control the whole upper limb. Also, by placing just four electrodes on the cauda equina portion (= the bundle of nerve roots at the end of the spinal cord), we can control gait function.

Thomas Solbach: And that means, if I come back to that arm example, you have the five nerves you just mentioned, and then they get triggered externally through electrodes, right? How are they going to be triggered? Is this an electronic signal transmitted from the human brain onto those nerves, or is it from an external source?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: Yes, based on the BCI device, the BCI device stimulates these electrodes based on the decoding result of brain activity. So, if they just think, they can move as they want, even disabled people.

Thomas Solbach: So, meaning that if you have that implantable device layering on top of the human brain - non-invasive into the brain, but layering on top - you are measuring signals from the brain through the BCI device. You are decoding this, and if that person thinks, "I want to move my arm", you measure that signal, which is transmitted to the electrodes on, let us say, the left arm, to those five nerves. That then triggers the arm to actually move. This is the connection from the brain to the BCI, decoding and sending signals to the nerves, to the arm. And this is going to be possible soon, you said, right?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: Yes, the technology is possible, but we are currently doing animal experiments. We need many findings from animals before we can apply it to human applications.

Thomas Solbach: And the biggest barrier to using this in humans is the safety around it.

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: Yes, there are so many issues to using such technology presently - the long-term stability of the electrode, long-term stability and safety, and also the performance of such technology. For now, this is just the concept. We are doing many animal experiments, but we are facing so many issues to overcome.

Thomas Solbach: So, let us probably take a step forward. Ten years from now, we would meet again, be it in Tokyo or Osaka, at JiMED, then a flourishing company. What are the key things that we will have achieved by then when it comes to BCI technologies? What would you look back on and be proud to be part of such a development?

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: We are proud of our BCI technology, as well as our related innovations. In 10 years, several companies will be doing clinical trials. BCI technology will be approved as a medical device to restore motor and communication function. Ten years will be only the initial step; looking ahead across the next several decades, this innovative technology will change the world.

Thomas Solbach: Put simply, it will take considerable time before brain-computer interfaces (BCIs) can be fully implemented in humans. What could accelerate progress is advances in computing power, including quantum computing. I also understood that you can measure brain signals, decode them, and send signals directly in a targeted manner to individual nerves to make the respective organs and parts of the body move. This is truly fascinating science and a compelling concept, and it’s encouraging to see the real-life progress your company, JiMED, is making.

My sincere thanks to you, Professor Hirata, for sharing your profound expertise in BCI technology and for really enlightening us on this complex yet incredibly exciting topic. I will definitely take a lot away from this conversation today. I wish you personally the very best for your endeavors in academic research, but also at JiMED, and I cannot wait to see how your company will develop. I hope to meet again in a few years and have the chance to revisit the predictions discussed today.

Prof. Masayuki Hirata: Thank you very much, Thomas, for this very exciting discussion.

Thomas Solbach: To all our listeners, thank you for your continued support. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. Please share your thoughts with us on the various podcast platforms or shoot me a message on LinkedIn. We really appreciate all the feedback we receive and welcome your input to bring you more thought-provoking episodes in the future. But until then, sayonara and goodbye.